Curse

Fat Emo Kid · Jul 06, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

But, NF isnt the cause. it just really helped the process that started long ago.
HA has become a garbage can long before nf came.
- game released, april 2005. ppl run overpowered pet build. immediately nerfed.
- ele spikes with chain lightning. chain lightning gets nerfed after a month or 2.
- ranger spirit spam. gets nerfed after 2~ months.
- smite e/mo teams. lasts longer, gets nerfed after 3~ months.
- august 2005. IWAY.
- several months later, 80% of groups in tombs r IWAY. bspike and rspike join in.
- several months later. everyone runs IWAY and bspike.
- 6v6 tombs - good days of tombs, large variety in builds.
- present. anet switched tombs back to 8v8 because the iway and bspike ppl cried like hell for months. IWAY is still the dominant build in tombs. bspike, (and ritspike, ele spike, same thing) is still run.

Thanks for that summary, I don't have the best memory and I only can remember bits and pieces without someone bringing it back up.

Quote:

NOTES
- ur suggestion, making rank based districts in tombs, wont help. and im not talking about the fact that ive been into unranked groups that were way better than r8+ ones. iway screwed up rank, it means nothing. even if it did, much more drastic changes are needed. anyway, why do u need a special district to from a r9+ group? cant u do that now?
- i didnt talk about gvg cuz im not doing gvg for a long time now. i have no idea if gvg suffers from the same problem, though as mentioned above, i saw a way-too-popular build in the monthly tournament.

Well, I worked my ass off to get where I am. I'd like to receive something for my work, hence I want these districts. Sure, this may make the rank gap more set in stone, but I have no problem taken in unranked players, as long as they can play, listen, and are mature. That's the problem with this game, is that 90% of players are immature, which is something I don't feel like dealing with everyday.

You guys complain about rank and how you can't get it, but maybe if you carried yourself in a more mature manor that appeals to us at a higher rank, where many of us don't mind helping you and teaching you, but you either yell, whine, complain, or make a huge arguement about it all. We don't care, we have our rank, if you want yours, then you'll have to do what I did, which is learn how to play, grind your way up, and even now I still don't get as much as I should be, or I'd like to be getting. It's part of the game, and it's part of life, too. This is just how it works, and we deserve more than what we're given. The emote we get has become a point of conflict because some people get it doing these crappy builds that really just involve farming, not the actual serious playing of the game, which can lead to terrible R9s in the game and people we don't want to put up with.

twicky_kid · Jul 06, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

People have been saying this since the release of the game. Accept GW for what it is: A really big beta to GW2.

Div · Jul 07, 2007, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

People have been saying this since the release of the game. Accept GW for what it is: A really big beta to GW2.

It's only turned to a big beta to GW2 since Anet gave up on skill balance and ruined PvP. Before then it was a very legitimate PvP game with much better balance.

I Brother Bloood I · Jul 07, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Guild wars is dying... duh? If this is just getting to some of u then thats pathetic. Srsly this game is dead pvp wise already. They had the chances to save the pvp community with skill balances but they didnt do it. Pvp is good part about the game but pve is the one payin the bills. Pve comes first and its lead to ignored pvp community and u could tell that by when they made arcane aoe. I know anet tries hard but ats and hb wasnt the answer to fixing the game and im sure they know that. There aware the pvp community is dying and there retrying for gw2. To bad there gonna lose the majority of pvp community they already had.

Randomway Ftw · Jul 07, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

- 6v6 tombs - good days of tombs, large variety in builds.
- present. anet switched tombs back to 8v8 because the iway and bspike ppl cried like hell for months. IWAY is still the dominant build in tombs. bspike, (and ritspike, ele spike, same thing) is still run.

roflcopter, 6v6 = sucked hard, and is one of the reasons for the large decline in player base.

Riotgear · Jul 08, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

heh, 6v6 was bad, the lack of aggressive balancing and random overpowering of skills has been doing most of the damage lately.

Oh yeah, and the last Halls I watched was Heroway vs. Heroway vs. Ritspike. GG.

shoogi · Jul 08, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

ill put it that way- 6v6 was less sucking than now.

lacasner · Jul 08, 2007, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

ill put it that way- 6v6 was less sucking than now.

./agreed, it was also easier to make a party as a casual player. 6vs6 test weekend double fame weekend anyone??

moko · Jul 08, 2007, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

ill put it that way- 6v6 was less sucking than now.

QFT. players need to accept it, 6v6 wasn't as good as the VERY VERY OLD 8v8, but that 8v8 was dead to everyone already, and the new one sucked, and the new 6v6 was better than 8v8 would've been, and now we are back to 8v8, everyone is "happy", and look at the bs that came out of it. people might have quit because off 6v6, but i'm SURE many of them would've quit either way, even if it remained 8v8. maybe if they changed the objectives before and sticked to 8v8, and had a nice skill balance.

community issues ftl?

at least 6v6 had slight variety, and it would have even more in this way, but whatever.

Avarre · Jul 08, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

6v6 during Factions was actually fun for awhile.

Nurse With Wound · Jul 08, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

QFT. players need to accept it, 6v6 wasn't as good as the VERY VERY OLD 8v8, but that 8v8 was dead to everyone already, and the new one sucked, and the new 6v6 was better than 8v8 would've been, and now we are back to 8v8, everyone is "happy", and look at the bs that came out of it.

community issues ftl?

at least 6v6 had slight variety, and it would have even more in this way, but whatever.

Totally and utterly untrue statement. First of all, old Heroes' Ascent wasn't "dead", it was place thriving with guilds, friendlist teams and pugs, all kinds of them. During the end days of factions meta, IWAY, bloodspike and other gimmicks were in decline, r-spike was long gone already, and more and more balanced was showing up.

Then came 6v6, most of old HA guilds disbanded or simply moved to gvg. I know this from personal experience. This fate was shared by my old guild, by my old alliance. Problems with unwanted format ( 6v6 ) were doubled by release of Nightfall which brought it's share of problems ( heroway - remember one man teams? , unbalanced skills, overpowered classes - old paragon ). That was the end of HA.

"new" 8v8 got its share of problems but they can be contributed to two things. Unwanted, and failed game modes ( killcount ), and lack of proper good skill balance that would fix the meta by eliminating gimmicks. It's far better though than 6v6 Nightfall nightmare.

God Apprentice · Jul 08, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Heroes need to be totally removed from HA, for the following reasons:

1: If I want to fight AI, I can PvE.
2: In an Player versus Player enviroment where personal skill is put to the test, AI will always win. Norgu PD'd our Mesmer's PD. Exactly how is this fair? Humans do not have that fast of a reaction time.

The current degen barb hero build is stupid. The times we have lost to them, they flash their bambis as if having heroes control your hexes and degen took skill. What happened to pugging?

Lord Natural · Jul 08, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Been taking a break from GW to play some Command and Conquer 3, and after being reminded how companies like EA treat their games, I just have to point out how dedicated to their game ncsoft actually is. Don't get me wrong, there are things I'd love to see changed in GW, HA improvements being near the top of that list, but at least somewhere there are devs who care about the game, even if they don't support my philosophy on game changes.

Take a company like EA - Not only can't they keep their game balanced, but just days after (the infrequent) patches are released, there are new hacks and exploits which make the game borderline unplayable. To make matters worse, you know that larger companies like that abandon their games after a few patches to move on to the next project anyway. I'm just citing EA as an example, but there are many more companies who go with the routine of a couple of patches, then on to the next project. At least with GW cheating is a non-issue, and there is a dev team keeping an eye on things. Alls I'm saying with regards to GW is, it could be worse

What Guild Wars needs more than anything is a community representative from anet who is dedicated to pvp. As it stands right now, I really believe this forum is going mostly unheard. Maybe some dev actually reads this crap, but even if he does I see very little back and forth discussion from both sides. It's more along the line of the community spamming posts, hoping somebody at anet reads it, but not really knowing until a game-update is made. The recent skill update, for example, practically lifted a couple of changes right from ensign's thread, but at no point do I recall a dev or representative posting to discuss the feasibility of those changes from their perspective. It's a little frustrating, as most of the discussion in this forum is more coherent than the incessant ramblings of the pve forum, which they no doubt pay more attention to.

Phades · Jul 08, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

The current degen barb hero build is stupid. The times we have lost to them, they flash their bambis as if having heroes control your hexes and degen took skill. What happened to pugging?

Hero AI > most pugs. I have been told this a few times by a couple individuals when i was becomming more frustrated in trying to play some formats of the game, which included pvp. However, I was stubborn and did not use heros in pvp and eventually played the game less, but i doubt if i used heros in pvp that were not the HvH battles that i would have played more.

Although this is drifting away from the original topic of course.

Despozblehero · Jul 08, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Im dissapointed that STILL since 8v8 was re-implemented theres not even skill balances, much less anything else, aimed at fixing HA. Cant imagine anyone at anet plays in HA seriously, unless theyre running "zergway/iway" or rit spike or heroway like 95% of the current HA population. Theres no such thing as pugging anymore unless youre running with a gimmick build (ok not 100% true but it takes HOURS to find a decent group, and also theres some really terrible ranked people who "farmed" their fame). I feel like im being strung along. Fix the current mechanics (which really were more for 6v6 i imagine) or get rid of them. this really has gone on long enough... oh yeah and lose the heros its bad enough you can get your Reversal of Fortune D-shotted by the Ghostly Hero lol. I feel if you want to play with heros go to Hero Battles, isnt that why its there? and BALANCE SOME SKILLS!!!!

Tea Girl · Jul 08, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

PVP Things fall apart.

PVE is the way to go.

Ajaala · Jul 08, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

I agree with the OP. And to all the posters who come here and say "no its not dying stop whining, gw is not dying." The PVE aspect might not be dead, but the PVP sure as hell is.

More and more pvpers are quitting because tbh, Anet seems to have given up on fixing what they destroyed. They made HA 6v6 because they wanted to make it easier for pvers and newer players to get into PVP and HA. Well they made it worse and worse and now the ppl left playing HA are the ones who like gimmicks i guess. And they didnt get satisfied once they were done with attacking HA. They had to start with GVG too. I have no idea what Anets plan with this thing was, but I guess that they somehow thought that they would make everything better.

I dont really think that players who started pvping six months ago understand the same way that "older" pvpers do. But I think that it's sad to see a game, which once had a good and balanced PVP arena, just turn out like this.
And btw, all the talk about GW2 and how they will learn from their mistakes. Well, from what I've read about how GW2 PVP is gonna be, it's really not that great.

hyro yamaguchi · Jul 08, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

Been taking a break from GW to play some Command and Conquer 3, and after being reminded how companies like EA treat their games, I just have to point out how dedicated to their game ncsoft actually is. Don't get me wrong, there are things I'd love to see changed in GW, HA improvements being near the top of that list, but at least somewhere there are devs who care about the game, even if they don't support my philosophy on game changes.

Take a company like EA - Not only can't they keep their game balanced, but just days after (the infrequent) patches are released, there are new hacks and exploits which make the game borderline unplayable. To make matters worse, you know that larger companies like that abandon their games after a few patches to move on to the next project anyway. I'm just citing EA as an example, but there are many more companies who go with the routine of a couple of patches, then on to the next project. At least with GW cheating is a non-issue, and there is a dev team keeping an eye on things. Alls I'm saying with regards to GW is, it could be worse

What Guild Wars needs more than anything is a community representative from anet who is dedicated to pvp. As it stands right now, I really believe this forum is going mostly unheard. Maybe some dev actually reads this crap, but even if he does I see very little back and forth discussion from both sides. It's more along the line of the community spamming posts, hoping somebody at anet reads it, but not really knowing until a game-update is made. The recent skill update, for example, practically lifted a couple of changes right from ensign's thread, but at no point do I recall a dev or representative posting to discuss the feasibility of those changes from their perspective. It's a little frustrating, as most of the discussion in this forum is more coherent than the incessant ramblings of the pve forum, which they no doubt pay more attention to.

Completely true.

This is how it is.

Problem => Anet changes stuff => has it tested => releases it => only changes it if the community cries over it for months.

How it should be:

Problem => Anet changes stuff => the community's natural urge to abuse turns up=> weaknesses are found=> Anet uses this as feedback => changes the concept etc.

SO basically the community should replace the test people from Anet.

For example: If Anet changes HA again, just make a test week were no one can earn fame, not a test weekend, as a weekend is way too short to think up of a lot of exploits.

Or just select a large group of players who are critical on the forum, and have them beta something. They see things differently than Anet as a company does.

Riotgear · Jul 08, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Norgu PD'd our Mesmer's PD. Exactly how is this fair? Humans do not have that fast of a reaction time.

wow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

Stuff.

The latest patch did OK at that, but you have to remember three things:

First, EA is indisputably one of the worst companies out there in terms of long-term support for a game, even those that need it like RTSes.

Second, C&C3 became very hard to balance the instant they decided to make the game "for the fans" by bringing back most of the old mechanics. Ironically, their most recent change to that formula (limiting base creep with power plants/barracks) has probably done more harm than good. The classic C&C gameplay mechanics were so frantic and difficult-to-balance that it's really amazing that they wound up with something as balanced as it currently is. Older C&C titles, multiplayer strategy was essentially limited to "spam more of the basic tank." At least with support powers, better airforces (i.e. venoms), bombers, and solid late-game units like the Avatar and Juggernaut, there is far more potential than that.

Third, the fact that EA sucks ass does not mean Anet does not have marked room for improvement in terms of how they handle things. Case and point being how their several-months-in-the-making balance patches tend to completely fail to touch fundamental issues in several parts of the meta, yet they'll patch in some important changes a week later when the "we waited for this?" uproar begins. I think that's been the case for the last 3? patches.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 08, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

Norgu PD'd our Mesmer's PD. Exactly how is this fair? Humans do not have that fast of a reaction time.

Physically impossible to do on reflexes, even with computer reflexes. Norgu must've been trying to get an early spell (aka your mesmer was chaining spells). Either that or the AI is learning to bow-interrupt style anticipate spells.